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NGC vs. PCGS the difference and why the premiums s

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JimMayor007 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Jun 2007 at 6:09am
Every wonder why a PCGS coin in MS66 will carry a higher premium to buyers than a MS66 from NGC?

I know for years I did, then about 6 years ago at a convention in San Diego I sat thru a seminar which attempted to educate professional numisist on this exact point(waste of time)!

You see, the bottomline for the price difference has to do with selectibilty at certain grades(according to NGC reps). Being in the buisness for many years, I have noticed that from AU-55 - MS 63, you really notice no price difference when selling professional grade coins between NGC and PCGS, but the magic grade seems to be MS65+. Me being the type of person I am, the seminar seemed to be a good starting point for own homewrok into this age old question.

When you start dealing in higher grade coins, a LARGE part of their value comes from the population report of that specific date and mint. For instance here, I am going to reflect on the 1932 D Washington quarter in MS-65. Ngc has a Pop of 14 currently, with none graded higher(14/0), While PCGS has 63 currently with 1 higher (63/1). YET.... Heritage recently sold a PCGS MS65 32d for 20,500.00, but in May sold a MS65 NGC 32d for 15,600.00 ????????? So I have to say, if the population has the majority to do with it, then this makes NO sense.

Important information NGC vs. PCGS the difference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverhawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2007 at 11:08am
PCGS has a reputation for giving out fewer high grade coins, i.e. being much more selective. So a high grade from them tends to carry a higher price tag, sometimes MUCH higher.
 
This reputation carries the pricing across denoms, mints, and years. So -- in the case you mention, NGC's population carries no weight. PCGS's reputation rules.
 
Finally, just because NGC has only graded a few doesn't mean that population is rare.
 
Here's what I mean:
Perhaps only 15 coins were submitted to NGC with a liklihood of that grade. and
Perhaps 150 have been submitted to PCGS.
 
You won't always get a perfect submission curve.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingofcoins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2008 at 12:32pm
I think the biggest thing you are forgetting is that two coins have the same grade mean little to the actual selling price at auction. I doubt that one being PCGS and the other being NGC made a 5,000 difference. I'd have to see a picture of both coins, but it sounds like one might have had blast white colors, or maybe the other had a reverse stain or something like that. Also, read Dave Bower's book about how to make money in rare coins. He has a great chapter about "auction fever." It just takes two people who want that one coin to really raise the coins price. Silverhawk is right about population reports though. It seems PCGS' pop report really does matter more than the others right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote just carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2008 at 9:20am
Regardless of the coins, the prices, the grades, I've found the main difference between any TPGS's is the name. The more people say PCGS, the more popular it becomes and the more reputable that name appears. On web sites, coin shows, coin stores, etc people just keep saying things like "well you know it is in a PCGS slab". Popularity is the main difference as far as I can see. I've hear so many stories of PCGS is a harder grading service, NGC has better slabs and many more stories but all TPGS's are just people grading coins and people are different everywhere. I've heard that there is now over 100 grading services. Many are new, some older, some fly by nights, but all are making money so that is what is important you know. Whatever any of us say about one or the other, they don't really care as long as you mention them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingofcoins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2008 at 1:49pm
well carl, when you are right you are right. People do love to say, "it's in a pcgs slab. I think NGC and PCGS are about the same, but PCGS is extremely more popular. It does have a little to do with who started PCGS. David Hall, John Dannreuther, and others. These are big names.
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Calnumismatist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calnumismatist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2008 at 1:43am
The two main reasons:
 
1. The PCGS registry set.
 
2. PCGS marketing.
 
It is no different than Walmart stating they have lower prices. Whether it is true or not, people believe it, and that makes them grow on a daily basis.
People believe PCGS to be number one, better graders, better prices. This in turn makes them that way more often than not.
 
We cross over coins on a weekly basis, and the grades are the same 95% of the time.
We will put generic coins and lower rarities in PCGS holders because more collectors will pay more money for them. Simple as that.
For the ultra rarities that we handle, we will leave them in either holder simply because the values of the slab do not matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingofcoins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2008 at 3:55am
I like the PCGS magazine also. I love Jamie Hernandez's article each month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calnumismatist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2008 at 4:40am
The PCGS mag is a thing of the past now. While I enjoyed most of it, they made it far too difficult to view the values. I can remember many times when I and my co-workers were putting it down in favor of Trends.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingofcoins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2008 at 9:31am
Ohh, I've never enjoyed the magazine for the priceguide. I like the interview of the month, and the few articles they use. How do you feel about the greysheet/bluesheet priceguide. How close to you feel it is to actual value??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calnumismatist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2008 at 9:51am
The greysheet and greensheet are still one of the best guides for generic material. The Blue sheet is completely off base in my opinion.
If you are buying common date, common grade stuff, the greysheet is as close to anything out there. Where they lack is in the area of moderns like Mint Sets and Proof sets and better date/condition coins.
I know that many dealers sell common mint-proof sets wholesale as far back as 15% below bid. Modern commems suffer from this same problem.
When it comes to better coins, we along with multiple other dealers are paying 2 to 3 times current bid levels.
Just recently we purchased some proof Seated Dollars, and paid 2.5 times bid across the board.
I believe that the problem comes from the large differences in auction results. This throws off the generic price guides. What is not taken into account is that these coins are being bought sight-seen at the auctions, and the gems are commanding stupid money while the average are selling for less than sheet. When you factor in the upgrade and new CAC material, the prices for the "same" grade coins can be all over the map. It has never been more important than to keep up with real prices.
It used to be easy to use a combination of greysheet and heritage, but that doesn't work anymore.
Again, if you want generic run of the mill stuff, the greysheet is the best guide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingofcoins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2008 at 10:15am
I agree, I canceled my bluesheet just for that reason. I never found it to be a useful guide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote just carl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2008 at 1:28am
Note also the PCGS web site has well over 20,000 members. Many, many stay active on that site. Those also go to other web sites like this one and mention the name PCGS I would suspect more for advertising than any real situation. I know that the Editor of the Whitman Red Book, Dennis Tucker, is one of the more consistant members there.
As I said though not much more need be said about a TPG service that to constantly hear at coin shows "of course it cost a little more, it is in a PCGS slab, you know".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fitey8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2008 at 4:32am
I love the fact that slabs seem to have brought the community closer together. I hate the fact that there are grades on slabs and that the grade is the word of God and can not be denied.
-Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benz Coinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2008 at 7:05am
I prefer RAW over slabbed but do buy and sell a lot of slabs.
 
PCGS and NGC are even as far as I am concerned BUT if PCGS were to start using a white insert like NGC, they'd be my ONLY choice!
 
The white shows off luster or toning better IMHO.
 
Ben
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